Remember the times when tucking away a snack in your apron pocket was the highlight of your workday? That's just a taste of the reminiscence Caroline and I serve up alongside a heaping dollop of pageant sparkle, as we're joined by Courtney, a former beauty queen whose tiara is polished with both charm and wisdom. Our conversation spirals from the sugar-dusted memories of our cupcake shop days, trading pastries for chapstick, to the bittersweet goodbye of its closing doors. It's a journey through the evanescent world of food fads, where gourmet cupcakes give way to the next big thing.
Courtney, with the poise only a title like Miss Catfish Stomp could bestow, graciously leads us through the sequined archway into the pageant realm—a place where familial bonds outshine the competitive glitz. She debunks the myths, bringing forth a narrative strewn with quirky local festival titles and a camaraderie that extends beyond the stage. Our chat uncovers a side of pageantry that's more potluck than cutthroat, where community and friendship are the true crowning glories.
Wrapping up our walk down the runway, we confront the double-edged sword that is the child beauty pageant world. We laugh and wince at the investment in dresses and coaching, weighing the cost against the sheen of confidence gained under the spotlight. Our musings go beyond the surface, probing into the motivations fueling this glittering industry and the indelible mark it leaves on childhood. It's a candid look at the tapestry of experiences woven through the pageant sash—stitched with nostalgia, sparkles, and a touch of controversy.
Remember the times when tucking away a snack in your apron pocket was the highlight of your workday? That's just a taste of the reminiscence Caroline and I serve up alongside a heaping dollop of pageant sparkle, as we're joined by Courtney, a former beauty queen whose tiara is polished with both charm and wisdom. Our conversation spirals from the sugar-dusted memories of our cupcake shop days, trading pastries for chapstick, to the bittersweet goodbye of its closing doors. It's a journey through the evanescent world of food fads, where gourmet cupcakes give way to the next big thing.
Courtney, with the poise only a title like Miss Catfish Stomp could bestow, graciously leads us through the sequined archway into the pageant realm—a place where familial bonds outshine the competitive glitz. She debunks the myths, bringing forth a narrative strewn with quirky local festival titles and a camaraderie that extends beyond the stage. Our chat uncovers a side of pageantry that's more potluck than cutthroat, where community and friendship are the true crowning glories.
Wrapping up our walk down the runway, we confront the double-edged sword that is the child beauty pageant world. We laugh and wince at the investment in dresses and coaching, weighing the cost against the sheen of confidence gained under the spotlight. Our musings go beyond the surface, probing into the motivations fueling this glittering industry and the indelible mark it leaves on childhood. It's a candid look at the tapestry of experiences woven through the pageant sash—stitched with nostalgia, sparkles, and a touch of controversy.
Hello, hello, hello I'm.
Speaker 2:Meredith. I'm Meredith, I'm Caroline and this is sister shit.
Speaker 1:This is sister shit and we have a guest this week BAM, bam, bam.
Speaker 2:So, excited to this week we're talking beauty pageants. Caroline and I have neither of us have participated in a beauty pageant and we felt like we had to deliver you guys At least someone with some knowledge and background, since the last week, we did a whole episode about a place that we've never, ever been to and did no research on, so we stepped it up a little bit, just a little and by little. We need miniature beauty queen. Give it up for.
Speaker 3:Starling past.
Speaker 2:Beauty.
Speaker 3:Yeah, tell us how you.
Speaker 2:Well, okay. First of all, let's say hello, I want to know how you guys know each other.
Speaker 3:Hi, thanks for having me, yeah.
Speaker 4:You guys met working at the cake cupcake shop.
Speaker 2:Right, we did.
Speaker 3:Yes, years ago Back in college days yeah, so what year was?
Speaker 2:that Like 20. It was right when I got engaged because our boss asked me if I was pregnant and told me I didn't need to get married. Oh, what Shit. Wait, who was? Was it Heidi?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Heidi she was like I think she was very like genuine.
Speaker 2:But she was like are you pregnant? And I was like no, because I was so young, I was 21. So it was 2011. When I was back, when cupcakes were all the rage yes, yes, and Meredith was saying, I think a couple episodes ago, that she used to like keep snacks and her apron pocket.
Speaker 3:And she was like I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. She used to keep snacks in her apron pocket.
Speaker 4:Yes, I forever will know Meredith as the one who cut these weird little melting chocolate discs in her pocket. They were like oh, body heat from body heat, they would start to melt in her pocket, but she'd still be like eating the little melty chips throughout the show.
Speaker 2:It was nasty, like melting chocolate that we'd used for like cake pops and like that chocolate should not be eaten as like a treat.
Speaker 3:And shouldn't be raw dog in it in your pocket.
Speaker 4:It was probably a little linty, you know, but it's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 2:I also would eat the Lisa would. Our boss would be peeling the apples with an apple like one of those like little apple peelers that like does the long strand of peel and I would just like eat the apple peel and she'd be like that's garbage and I was like I kind of like it.
Speaker 4:That's so funny. I don't remember that one, but I love that story. Healthy I mean it was college years. It was tough times, you know doing a little raccoon and living for a snack.
Speaker 2:We were scavengers there, so we were, when we got one free kick every shift.
Speaker 3:Oh, but I don't want it yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean really you want to use your free cupcake to like put everybody's free cupcakes together to trade with somewhere that has yes. Food and meals that is nearby for sure.
Speaker 2:I traded this guy that worked at the outdoor store across the street one time. He brought me a tube of chapstick for a cupcake.
Speaker 4:What? That is probably the strangest trading story I've ever heard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think it was, because I think for him it was more about the thrill of the trade, because he had to like steal from his store and I had a free merchandise to give and he would just like take the point of purchase or what do you call like the little counter top things. Yeah, like the thing.
Speaker 4:How did this even come up?
Speaker 2:Where did he come from?
Speaker 4:He was a.
Speaker 2:He dated my friend, oh, okay, Okay, he was a friend and we just worked across the street, so I think he just like, thought it was fun to trade things.
Speaker 3:That's hilarious. Got it Okay? Last cupcake topic before we move on to the real topic all time favorite flavor.
Speaker 4:I think mine might have to be salted caramel chocolate.
Speaker 2:I don't know, it's a classic. I can taste that when you say the name.
Speaker 4:It's hard to mess up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4:I think it's just like a good easy.
Speaker 1:It was my favorite too, it was good.
Speaker 3:Is cupcake still there? No, no.
Speaker 4:So we changed to owners and COVID hit hard and the owner kind of backed out. You know I don't completely buy them, but at the same time he was a little shady. So it is like this it was in the breath dumping, yes, Like we found out on Thanksgiving that we were closing like two weeks later.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:I had to tell my staff on Thanksgiving oh no, so it was not the best ending and we don't still talk that's what I'm saying, but you know it is what it is. We looked out the whole cupcake bag.
Speaker 2:It had a good run. It did, that's a long run. It was a long run. Yes, it really was.
Speaker 3:Longer than the frozen yogurt. True, it was like I don't think I'm gonna be able to go back to the last year. I was like I've been in a different continent that like there's those popped up on every corner and now I can't name one that's left.
Speaker 2:I went to a new one the other week. You guys, my friend, knew one.
Speaker 3:I don't think it's new, but I, my friend, was like do you want to go get frozen yogurt after we pick up the kids from school?
Speaker 2:And I was like uh-huh, but like wait, wait, wait. And she's like this is my favorite, it's the best. Like she's like and I'm like I love that you are. She like managed multiple frozen yogurt places, like in high school and then in college. She's like Interesting, yeah, and she's a classic flavor, like the yogurt flavor. When we go she's like a pure, purest purest wild, but I was like it has been over a decade since I've had frozen yogurt.
Speaker 3:I remember the first time going I was like this is the future and now? And now it's crumbled. Yeah, like dip in dots yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, but did? That was the future, you guys. It still is, if I go to.
Speaker 3:Like I'm trying to think of places that have dipping dots like a baseball game.
Speaker 2:I'm like, yeah, I'm saving my, I'm saving the room in my tummy there are margins have to be absolutely insane, because the amount of dots you get in the container is like so few, yeah, like there's a lot of air in there, and there it's about eight dollars a pop, so it's it's kind of wild if you think about it a whole episode on sweets.
Speaker 3:If you haven't yet sweet trend. Yeah, maybe we'll do that.
Speaker 2:No, okay, we'll get a question. Okay, you guys feel about crumble cookie, you guys?
Speaker 3:already know how I feel about their uh guest experience.
Speaker 2:Wait, did we talk about?
Speaker 3:it I thought we did about how you like the robots are taking over because you walk up and you like order on an iPad.
Speaker 2:And it's like do you want to leave a?
Speaker 3:25% tip for nothing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I've never been in a crumble cookies oh.
Speaker 2:I've had other people's like their Um chocolate chip. It's the only one I like.
Speaker 3:I've had another one that I liked I will okay. So at work, a couple months ago, my boss had like had a meeting with a potential like person, like a vendor that we were gonna use, and within like three hours we got a giant delivery, like giant, like 12 crumble cookies, which is a lot. And we were like, who sent us these cookies? And it came with a note that said thanks for meeting with us earlier. We're so excited and hope the momentum doesn't crumble.
Speaker 2:I respect that Did you end up going with them?
Speaker 3:I honestly never followed up. I just ate the cookies. I mean it wasn't my job to follow up. I just was there for the cookies. Let me be clear.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what they were. I didn't drop the ball.
Speaker 4:It's like oh no, she didn't like that very much. Now Okay let's get into it.
Speaker 2:We are talking about beauty pageants. Where do we wanna start? So, courtney, I guess we just wanna know what was your experience? Well, like, tell us about your personal history with the industry.
Speaker 2:Yes and why you got involved, and I do feel like I need to preface this by saying you can't see Courtney, but if you met her you would never in a million years think I bet she used to be a child. Beauty queen Just doesn't fit the bill, which I think is the thing I love most about you. It is like the best fun fact ever.
Speaker 3:And not that you're not absolutely stunning.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying that, I'm just saying we don't have the nears and like I'm not wearing a tiara right now.
Speaker 4:You're not wearing a tiara. You're not like bleach blonde.
Speaker 3:You don't have the yeah.
Speaker 4:Not anymore.
Speaker 3:Okay so you were in. Okay, okay, tell us everything.
Speaker 4:Okay, so my story starts at the ripe age of nine months old. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Already on the phone. Coach so clearly.
Speaker 4:I chose this life.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so my first pageant. I was about nine months old. It's so funny because I won some big trophy, Like I don't know if I was overall or just whatever, but it's the funniest picture because I can't. Like they just sat me down in my dress on this like little couch or whatever bench and you just I can't even hold my neck up and I have like this little tiara on and this huge trophy that's like three times my height. Like this is ridiculous.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, we need pictures. What are the?
Speaker 2:qualifications for like entering as a baby.
Speaker 4:Well, wait, can I tell you, as you said, you need pictures. I can't find it, but that was in the state newspaper, that's so. So I have to try to find it, but I do have a picture, so you're basically famous.
Speaker 3:You're famous from birth 1993, I was in the newspaper Miss Miss Baby, miss Baby 1993.
Speaker 2:Baby, Are we talking national level state?
Speaker 4:level county level state I did a lot of really small ones around South Carolina and okay, to give you more information on that, I think I was like little miscollared and like Little Miss Peanut, because there's like the peanut festival and the collared festival. At one point I was Miss Catfish Stomp Because that is a local, miss Catfish Stomp. Yes.
Speaker 2:Go on, that is a local.
Speaker 4:Yes, so I did a little bit of everything, but then there's some that's like the pageants model after like Valentine's Day, so it'll be like Little Miss Valentine or you know, like.
Speaker 3:What was your favorite title? Like which one are you like man? I'm proud of this title.
Speaker 4:I love telling people about the Catfish Stomp one, because probably they could hear it yeah that's a good one.
Speaker 2:Have you updated your LinkedIn profile Because? They have to be on it. Okay, so this is the first pageant where I can't hold my You're showing us an incredible picture that we want we're gonna share on Instagram.
Speaker 3:We'll share on Instagram, because this is amazing.
Speaker 2:The dress is huge, you look great.
Speaker 4:Oh gosh. So yeah, that's not even the one with the trophy. So what's like the?
Speaker 3:baby culture. I'm like. I guess, when does it get somewhat like funky? I'm assuming it gets funky, does it?
Speaker 4:So I sort of had to pull my brother into this on this one, because he's seven years older than me. So, he remembers a lot of this better than I do. At least the early years, you know. So he thinks that this all started because one of my mom's like work friends, had a daughter that she was putting in pageants and was like it'd be fun if we did this together.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 4:So it was like, okay, let's just do it for fun. And my grandma got involved and she was like, oh, love this, this is so cute. And so it became like a family and friends event and it was like every once in a while we'll do it. And then I got a little bit older and I guess I just started making friends with other girls that were in my age group at these pageants and then my mom became friends with their moms and so it would be like we would go over to their house and just hang out on a normal day.
Speaker 4:Or maybe we would join the same what do you call it? Like the person who teaches us routines to do on stage Coat. Sometimes it would be like, yeah, we would join the same studio for that person.
Speaker 3:And go to the sponsors together.
Speaker 4:I saw the movie Dumplin' I don't know why you remember that part. I do. I forgot about that movie. I did see that. I did not see toddlers in TRS. I watched an episode the other night to see if it brought anything back.
Speaker 3:I haven't seen any of it either. Look at you doing it. You did so much research.
Speaker 4:I love it, I do have to tell y'all, though, that my experience is not from the viewpoint of some of the people that I saw on toddlers in TRS, where the parents were like, oh well, they won first place in their age group. They just they lost the pageant, like they're not gonna get the overall, they're not gonna get the $10,000 or whatever. We were more so in it for, like, the fun aspect. I mean, of course, if I like won money or something awesome, we can put that toward the next one or something.
Speaker 4:But, it was never like oh, you won first place or second place, you lost. Like. It was always like oh, did you have fun? Like oh, great.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, so it helps me. So your mom wasn't like one of those like toddlers in TRS, those moms are like it can be intense, Intense, yes. And the kids are crying and they're like forcing the flippers in their mouth.
Speaker 4:Yes, and I did know parents that were like that. I remember having friends in the circuit whose moms were like a little scary to be around and they would be like. I can't believe you didn't get overall or whatever, like it was a whole thing.
Speaker 3:Which like happens in any like, it's not just in pageants. You always get in any childhood thing. There's the parents that like take it way too seriously. Like we were in plays growing up and we literally had like a girl whose grandma was like she's, this is showbiz baby. Like took it so like would get mad if this girl was not front and center.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's one in every bunch, at least one in every bunch, for sure yeah. So what was your first pageant? You remember, like how old were you? When you like, have memories of it.
Speaker 4:So I did them from when I was nine months old to when I was like 12 years old. So it was a very long time and, to be honest with you, it all sort of just blends together.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But for me things that like stand out are like places that I've been, more so than like the pageant itself. So a lot of the pageants, at least in this area I don't know how it is everywhere else, but like the peanut pageant, for example, I do remember that one being here. It was in a high school, so it was like in the high school auditorium and then we there were like dressing, get ready rooms in like classrooms.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:Like a dancer's title.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So we would be like giving our curlers, putting our hair and doing our makeup, and like changing clothes in classrooms, yeah, and we would line up like outside of the auditorium and like go up the back part of the stage onto the stage. And then you know audience would be sitting auditorium judges would be in front of them.
Speaker 2:Who's in the audience? Like is it which families right, I want to get on this later because I do.
Speaker 4:I also have something to say about this, because I have been thinking about it a lot in adulthood. Of course, as a child I didn't really think about it but, so most of the time it would just be family members, so like siblings, parents, grandparents cousins, you know all that fun stuff. Every once in a while people would bring their friends, but I feel like that was very minimal, like I didn't really I don't think anybody really knew of many outsiders that were around at least I don't know sort of Because.
Speaker 2:I don't feel like they advertised them.
Speaker 3:Exactly. These are so cool and it's kind of like an all day affair, right, correct?
Speaker 4:So you have to be like from like first thing in the morning all day, like they'll notice if somebody just like creeps along inside Like and a lot of people know each other, and so you kind of get to the point where it's like, oh, that's so-and-so's grandma, like we know her, Like you know just kind of you're in the circuit doing all these pageants. However, the group of people that I always get confused about and I wish that I knew more on, are the judges.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:Like who is the judge In any beauty?
Speaker 2:pageant yes, like when I was watching-.
Speaker 3:What makes them qualified? Exactly what makes them qualified? Yes, but when I was?
Speaker 4:watching toddlers in TRs the other day. You know they're like looking at the girls on stage and looking so seriously down at their paper and taking their notes and I'm like what are they writing? What are they so serious about, or like why is a?
Speaker 2:strange man looking at these. Yes, it's the men that weird me out.
Speaker 4:Yeah, like the older middle-aged to older men that are not somebody's grandpa Like. Even if they were, that would still be a little weird. But at least there's like some connection.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:I just don't understand.
Speaker 2:Very odd. So were the category I know there's like different categories of pageants Was cause like toddlers in TRs is like glitz right, it's like you're doing the flipper you're doing the hair. So were yours. What's like? The opposite of that, or what's the other options?
Speaker 4:No, so I mostly did glitz. Oh, okay, I didn't know. They recalled that until I watched toddlers TRs the other night.
Speaker 2:honestly, so does that look like? In the 90s, when you were doing it, was it as crazy as it is now?
Speaker 4:Yes, when I was watching it, but like the first episode, I was like, did I have that dress? Like it is very much the same somehow.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:Which is really interesting to me, because I would think that it would have evolved more than a half.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So there's glitz and then there's natural, and then I didn't keep watching. But I think the second episode had a little girl who was in natural pageants. So they didn't do hair, they didn't do makeup, and I think the clothing was way more like just a little bit more no-transcript. I don't know. That's a good question.
Speaker 1:Sorry keep going. That's the biggest question.
Speaker 4:That's the biggest question that everyone asked me, and I didn't have a talent. We didn't do talent like that.
Speaker 2:Oh, it was just Beauty Baby.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you would go and you would just have different outfits. I know you've seen my famous blue Western wear outfit the tiny cowboy boots.
Speaker 2:I think I have that photo actually too.
Speaker 3:So I'll find that Western wear that was. I'm telling you these things are ridiculous, you'd be popular. You'd probably win now with the Western wear. It's bad, it's the same Texas.
Speaker 4:So we had here's one, but this isn't the one that.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, when did you win that?
Speaker 2:pageant. It's amazing, it looks amazing.
Speaker 4:I don't know. I can't remember which ones I did and didn't.
Speaker 2:Was that your real hair?
Speaker 4:No, this is the bleach blonde face.
Speaker 1:So these are the little boots.
Speaker 3:Oh my, I want this outfit. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:So, this move that I'm doing, I have my arm or my hand on a hip and then my other arm is out with my Western wear coat across it and that's one of my moves that I did on stage. So you, when I did the coaching, you would go and it would be like we're going to do this to Dixie Chicks, and so we had yes, you did.
Speaker 3:How will I take me?
Speaker 4:away or something, and I would like have a coat on to start, but then I would like rip it off and like do it around my head and then put it on my arm and like walk around.
Speaker 2:I wish we had footage.
Speaker 4:I know that's the one thing. I don't have any videos of any of this, so your brother.
Speaker 3:Did he have to go to all these and sit through all these and watch them, and what are his feelings?
Speaker 4:He had to go through quite a few of them, but I think once he got Because he's seven years older than me, so I want to say once he hit that like 12 to 13 year old time frame, he was like I'm just going to go to a friend's house or something.
Speaker 2:Like I don't want to do this Good for him.
Speaker 4:And then for him, like my mom and my grandma were really into it, so we would all do the whole thing together, but then, like my parents divorced when I was like super young, right, so my dad wasn't naturally a part of all of that anyway, but like I have photos of him leading me on stage when I was really little and stuff on some of it and like coming to them. But the older I got like, I remember arguments and him being like why is she doing this? Like, why are we.
Speaker 4:Like he was, definitely like. I don't know about these pageants. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And then the older I got like he was like what is going on? But then, when you think about it too, I started in like 1993. Gombane Ramsey happened in like 96. Yeah, and so I continued over the course of all of that, and then there was this whole like that was a national line.
Speaker 2:And that like brought this to the forefront because I before her I feel like pageants they were happening but it was quiet.
Speaker 4:It was quiet, yeah, and then it was like mass concern. Yes, and I was going to say, and it brought a lot of people's feelings to it, especially not knowing what it was, seeing all the pictures and everything and saying, oh no, what are we doing? Which? I understand it's totally a right concern to have.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So when did you stop? At 12? Was it your?
Speaker 2:decision? Was it your mom's decision? Was your dad's?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I think I just started getting, I don't know. I started getting older and then you're just kind of like this isn't fun anymore, and so I kind of got to that point where I didn't feel like there was many the younger categories, I think, because more parents tend to put their kids in younger, just had more kids, so like five to seven age group would have like 12 kids or something a lot of times.
Speaker 4:But then when I got to like 11 to 13 or whatever age group it was, there were only like three of us.
Speaker 1:And so it's like I didn't have as many friends. Yeah.
Speaker 4:I didn't have any as many friends that kept up with it, but I started with and then. So when you start seeing your friends drop out and then when you get to the point where you're like I don't want to make new friends with these random people and I don't think I like this anymore. And why are we still tugging on my hair and doing my makeup?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know it's like you start sort of getting more self-aware, I guess at that age, Totally, Totally. And so I think I just got to the point where I was like no thanks. And I remember like telling my mom and I was like we're dying my hair brown. So I had bleach blonde hair for years.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was real or that wasn't real. The bleach blonde that I had, bleach blonde hair.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh, 100%. Yes, I got my hair dyed all the time. So I think, I had natural blonde hair up until I was about four years old.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then it started changing.
Speaker 4:It started getting darker, and so then I started getting dyed, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Whoa.
Speaker 4:So I didn't get my hair highlighted or like dyed at all for the first time until maybe like three years ago and I'm 31.
Speaker 2:So you were like go somewhere to get it done, or would your mom do it?
Speaker 4:Usually my mom would do it or something.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, wow, so it wasn't like out of salon.
Speaker 1:It was just like out of the box Like yeah, it was not good.
Speaker 4:I remember like over the summer, going to people's pools and swimming, and it would turn green because of the rain. It was not good and it was like I'm telling you guys, hold on. I got to find this other, like it was a well-known thing that people didn't touch my hair and I would throw fits like at home because my hair was so like damaged, yeah, and it was just like I don't know if you can see.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:That's in the middle of one of the rooms getting my hair like teased. Cause they would like tease your hair out like terribly.
Speaker 1:Is that your mom in the picture?
Speaker 4:No, that's a random person that did hair and makeup.
Speaker 2:I love it. Just like yeah, I don't know, so oh, my God.
Speaker 1:Are you friends with any of the?
Speaker 2:girls from your childhood?
Speaker 4:No, I'm like Facebook friends with a couple of them. They found me.
Speaker 1:Are they still?
Speaker 4:doing pageants.
Speaker 2:No, okay, interesting.
Speaker 4:And I don't think any of them have kids that are either. Okay. So pageants are still happening, but I think they in the Columbia, I think in the same like area, like the circuits that I would do I don't think still exist, I think.
Speaker 2:No more, ms Collard.
Speaker 4:Around here. I think they just a lot. There's a lot fewer of them and they're they're different. Now I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know how to say that the correct way, but yeah, interesting, so okay, so up to speed, you're like 30 something. What are your thoughts on pageants? Now, I guess what are your thoughts on, what are your thoughts on the pageant industry in general and what are your thoughts on?
Speaker 1:your own child category.
Speaker 4:I don't know. I guess for me it's like one of those things where it's just it's like weird and it's a lot of feelings, because I totally get how much, how much I enjoyed having like friendship and meeting people when I was younger and it was a lot of fun, Like you'd go stay in a hotel and you'd like run around the hotel with your friends.
Speaker 4:You'd be able to go in the pool later and you'd wake up and then go straight to the conference room or whatever that everything would be in, and it was like a fun sleepover sort of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, reminds me a lot. I didn't do dance competition until I was in like later high school, but it reminds me a lot of that culture. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I guess that would be. Yeah, that would be similar. So there's things about it that I'm like oh yeah, that was a lot of fun, that was like a cool thing. But then I start thinking about like the amount of money that's put into it, the amount of money that I, that's like lost to it, I guess. Yeah, for a lot of people, for most people, um, so that's kind of crazy to think about.
Speaker 3:And then also, it's just like Cause, like what's an average prize, cut Like what's a I honestly don't know $10,000 is a lot of money. Yeah, I honestly don't know. I don't think it's that much. Okay, I well, I have no idea I did a little wiki.
Speaker 2:I did a little wiki research earlier, but I don't remember what the I know it is said that costs between $508,000 for like, on top of an entry fee of a couple hundred dollars the hair, the makeup, the dresses like all that is like an additional.
Speaker 4:Probably that's what I was going to say, Cause you have to like, find a person who like makes the dresses and you have to get a custom dress made because you can't show up looking like someone else, right, so you're throwing money into that, cause it's like a ton of time and rhinestones and whatever else, um, and then a lot of people get pageant coaches, so you have to spend time, um, going to someone's studio to learn like dances and stuff to do on stage, um, and then, yeah, hair and makeup is a lot of money You're paying for each outfit and a lot of these ones that I did are like the most random. Like I told you, western, where, like, that's a whole interesting thing that has a lot of rhinestones too. So that's a whole thing on its own. And, yeah, I think entry probably when I was doing it when I was younger, it was probably between like $75 and $200, I would guess just for entry.
Speaker 4:So then, yeah, you're thinking hundreds of dollars on top of that for everything else and the amount of people that win is so like, if you're winning money toddlers and TRs I'm using for background, um they had if you win your group, then you don't get any money. But if you wait and win, like the overall or whatever there was like a thousand for like Supreme and then like 5,000 for like big Supreme. I don't know what it was called, but those were like the cash prizes and those were like the big, only cash prizes.
Speaker 3:So whenever you're saying earlier, like the people that went first in their category, the parents are like, oh, that doesn't even count because it's like not a cash prize.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because you're immediately like taken out of the running to then get. Oh okay, okay, which I don't understand how that makes sense.
Speaker 2:But yeah, hmm.
Speaker 1:Hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's definitely. People don't do it for the money, that's for sure.
Speaker 4:Right, right, I think that was probably. That's probably a problem with a lot of couples who have kids that do it too, like I assume, because you know any couple has arguments about money here in there as it is. Yeah, Like oh, you're spending money to do what now?
Speaker 3:And oh my gosh, I'm like I can't even believe that there's that many people out there that can afford them. Like right, right. I just know, I was just griping about paying $100 for some to play soccer Exactly.
Speaker 4:So it's like what money are you like? What are you not paying for every day that you're funneling that money into this? Right, I don't know, it's a whole interesting thing.
Speaker 2:It is interesting. So do you feel like I mean, there's a ton of controversy around it Do you feel like child beauty patents should be allowed Like? Do you think that they're like positive in any way?
Speaker 4:So one of the things that I was thinking about when I was watching toddlers and tears the other day was how they were saying like, oh, this is, this is helpful, it's giving them confidence, things like that. I think that's like the main argument, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm like I could see that, I could see confidence, I could see presence. You're having, you know, the chance to go in front of people and just get more comfortable being in front of people.
Speaker 4:So maybe you're better with speaking, Maybe you're just better with stage presence, whatever that'll do. But there's a lot of people that are like, oh, I'm going to get, there's other ways to achieve that. Yeah, I think the whole idea of it is just I don't want to say that it's like a brought me shame to talk about over the years, but it's one of those things where it's just like an icky like. If I go somewhere and they ask for a fun fact, I'm not like oh, I did pageants.
Speaker 4:Right Because it's like such a weird thing to just talk about to any stranger. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Right, I personally, and I think that I feel that way.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think I feel that way because it's like. It's like not something that I want to present about myself, because it's kind of icky. It comes with a lot of preconceived Like yes, but also, it is like it's a weird concept You're telling your little kid that they need to be prettier than the other ones and they need to get on the stage and show themselves off in front of strangers.
Speaker 3:There are a lot of great yeah.
Speaker 4:There's a lot of weird parts to it and I have a thing.
Speaker 3:There's a girl that I know from high school is like she's like she doesn't go to the same high school or didn't go to the same high school as me, but I like know her adjacently through other people but she is putting her like baby and pageants and I had never seen that before, Like baby, baby, yeah, and I was like I this is so such a strange concept to me, I guess that this is still happening.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 3:I just it's interesting, I feel like back in the day, a lot of things like were I don't know. Like like you're saying you were doing it in the phase of John Bonnet Ramsey and that was like kind of when think people were like, oh wait, this is kind of weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's weird that it outlasted. It's like it is strange.
Speaker 4:People have had so much to learn about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think it's because I think it's like some of those things that people love to hate. I mean, like Tyler's and Tira's was huge, like a massive show, so it's like I think it's kind of like a car wreck, Like you can't look away, but it's awful.
Speaker 3:You know when Tyler's and Tira has also made everyone be like.
Speaker 1:This is disgusting because it's show, you know it's drama, it's like, it's like true.
Speaker 3:It's the mom screaming at their kids, which like obviously wasn't your experience, but like that's what they're going to show on TV because it makes good TV.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right, it like kind of made a blanket over like everyone's experience maybe, whereas like some like there are, like you were saying, there's like a lot of positives in your personal experience. I yeah, but the building confidence argument is interesting to me because I'm like what about like acting Like yeah, like people who aren't?
Speaker 4:winning and then you're tearing their confidence. Yeah, I was going to say I'm like if, like what?
Speaker 3:if the person gets doesn't even rank, and then they're like I'm ugly. There's like so many different ways. It's like not even natural.
Speaker 2:I don't know what's worse, the glitz or the natural Cause. If you're winning glitz, it's like teaching your kid, maybe, that they have to like do all of these extra things to be presented as beautiful. But if it's a natural pageant and you lose, it's like, oh, am I not like good enough?
Speaker 4:And my nap with the glitz pageants. I feel like it was presented to all of us doing them a lot more as like um, you're like a little Barbie doll, like it was very much like. This is just for fun.
Speaker 2:Like fun yeah.
Speaker 4:Like this is not how you would be in everyday life, but like this is, you know, like when you play with Barbies, like you're dressing up and we're put, like you're getting makeup put on you which is also another weird concept to it, though, Because it's like, like you said, like a mom having their baby in it. Now it's like you're just playing dolls with your child.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get that. Yeah, it starts for a lot of people I can imagine of like I mean everyone. I have two girls. I loved her Like I loved. That was like my favorite hobby when they were babies was like finding cute outfits for them. So, yeah, I get the appeal, but yeah, yeah, the contest part is so interesting.
Speaker 4:Yeah, interesting. Well, did you guys watch Miss America growing up?
Speaker 3:No, really not my only concept of pageants until, like I was in high school, really was the like pageant scene of Miss congeniality.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was my first exposure to it too. Yeah, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:And then I had a friend that did them in high school and I for like two seconds, whenever I was like Friends with her, I was like mom, can I do a pageant with her? My mom was like I'm not paying for that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, the money aspect is it's just, it's like a big investment, it's in for what it's like? Yeah, it's like the investment with sports or anything else. You're like learning a skill.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it could be argued that you're learning a skill, but it just feels like the return well, the thing is like the, the thing that they you're learning a skill, but you're also paying a hundred dollars for a dress and like it's just a lot of extras that a lot of sports Don't have everything like once you've been in pageants and they've seen it like.
Speaker 4:You can't keep wearing the same stuff. You have to get new ones. It's so interesting.
Speaker 3:So what's the average cost of a dress? Because it's like custom.
Speaker 4:I don't know Because I mean the, the only thought I have this like in 1998 or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah sure inflation baby.
Speaker 4:I'm sure but even then you know, I was like six years old, so I wasn't like mommy. How much is the stress? Yeah right, yeah, I'm working it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would. I wish there was footage. So.
Speaker 2:Badly. I want the cowboy outfit footage.
Speaker 4:I also want that outfit wait, you guys Like so they'd had like 70s wear. Wait, this is adorable oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's for amazing yeah great designer I love it and then another positive.
Speaker 4:Oh, I didn't share this with y'all. I got to do like floats and parades. Like waving, so you know your crap in movies where they're just like waving at crowds and stuff. Yeah, the little pageant wave love it you know, and I was gonna show you to my little, I don't have any of my trophies or Anything anymore. Like, honestly, I got older and I was like throw it all away.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:That's how I feel about. Like I looked up the net or the industry the
Speaker 2:industry oh my gosh, all your trophies.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Courtney.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna lie I invited you on here, thinking that you like, just dabbled and we brought on a freaking like, like you. You slayed, I think they, she slayed you guys, I, I did not know, I did not know how.
Speaker 4:I told you, it's like another lifetime. It's like I just have half photos as memories.
Speaker 2:I fully thought the cowgirl pageant was like the only one. Oh no, I did not know, it was a lifestyle. I, I'm, I'm just. This is, I'm just chuffed amazing.
Speaker 3:Okay, what were you gonna say? The?
Speaker 2:industry is worth approximately. Do you want to guess? And then? We got a year are running out of time, so we have to go soon, but this could be our last little okay, okay, let's guess Not just the children, the whole, like the whole pageant and can you give us like no, this is just children, so under 13. Okay, this is just children.
Speaker 4:It's gonna be like millions, right.
Speaker 2:You know, this is being really unique. Up what Naviar's five billion annually Wow. And it's according money. Over 50% of parents believe that beauty pageants have a generally positive impact on their child self-esteem. Okay, okay, so wow, okay, crazy.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay. Well, if any of our 10 listeners are also fellow pageant girlies, please let us know. I am like so. I just think it's crazy how I don't know I'm so. It's been so interesting seeing what it's like in the 90s. So thank you so much, courtney, for coming on, it's been so fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. Thank you, guys for being here and we will see you next Tuesday. Yay, see you next.
Speaker 3:Tuesday.
Speaker 1:Bye, okay.